It seems that lately I am constantly picking fights online. I appear to have this need to be constantly contentious. Perhaps it is because I have come to learn, over a long life of observing and dealing with people, that the world is filled with liars and general bullshit artists. As a younger man, I trusted far too many people to whom I shouldn’t have given the time of day, much less my attention or devotion. People will lie in a NYC minute to protect their money, their power, or their interests.

Some folks present untruth because they don’t know any better. I was once among that group of people. Once upon a time, I defended theological ideas that were as putrid as rotting fish in a hot summer sun because I was A.) lazy  B.) didn’t know any better  C.) deceived by people I trusted D) filled with pride (i.e. – thinking myself smarter than the rest of the planet)

I was lazy in that I didn’t take the time and effort to study the other arguments against what I was being taught, such as Protestant theology. I didn’t know any better because I was lazy and didn’t do my due diligence to examine all facets of an argument. I was deceived because I have a tendency to believe the best in people rather than the worst. This has led me into more than one unhappy situation where someone has caused havoc in my life. I was  filled with pride because – because this is human nature which I share with the rest of broken humanity. If you want to see this on display, check out a theological debate forum such as Christianforums dot com and watch the way people speak. We all tend to defend our ideas as being perfect and that everyone else should listen to us.  I was no different.  I am trying to learn to stop thinking that I am the theological and philosophical end of all wisdom and instead listen to the Church where truth is found.  It is the Church – and not our own thoughts – that is called the “pillar and ground of truth.” Wish I had learned that 40 years ago.

Having discovered in the last two decades just how dishonest Protestantism is (not the people in the religion, but the religion itself – there are many wonderful people in Protestantism who would make outstanding members of the Orthodox Church) I tend to get exacerbated when people A.) defend Protestantism and B.) will not listen to the factual presentation of reality which shows how off-kilter the religion actually is.

This was a recent exchange with someone whose posts in an Orthodox forum struck me as being a bit smarmy.  Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of responding to smarm with more of the same.  Perhaps some day I will learn a bit of charity when dealing with these kinds of arguments and folks — but it didn’t happen this day.

His comments are in bold black.

My responses are in bold blue.

I didn’t take it that way, at all. I just meant that you guys (that’s all of you —EO, GO, RO, RCC, etc. and et al) pretty much do the same things.I didn’t take it that way, at all. I just meant that you guys (that’s all of you —EO, GO, RO, RCC, etc. and et al) pretty much do the same things.

Oh, you done done it now, bro!!!

You have special rule books you spend months learning.

As opposed to learning the Bible backwards, forwards, sideways and upside down in your particular denomination’s interpretation?? Then reading book after book after book by authors who support the interpretations of your denomination? Memorizing quotes from your favorite Protestant pastors and teachers? 

There is a reason for the “rule books” as you call them. The Liturgicon tells priests and deacons how to properly serve the Liturgy. This is opposed to many Protestant denominations, especially those in whacked-out Pentecostalism and free-wheeling’  Fundamentalism who just make it up as they go every Sunday, mostly on the whims of the preacha. The Catechetical books give us the truth that has been handed down from the very beginning, that is, what the very first Christians taught and believed, not what some joker made up in 1851 because he ate too many pickles with his pistachio ice cream and then an angel showed him the Golden Plates of Moron. Protestantism has jettisoned everything that relates to the Early Church and what was taught by the Apostles in favor of…..well, you can have just about any flavor of worship that suits your taste. And if you don’t like the current flavors, do what Aimee Semple McPherson and John Calvin and Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart and Martin Luther and many others did – mix up a batch of your own flavor.

What you saw (and apparently did not appreciate at all) was the same worship that you would have found in Constantinople in the 7th century, not some human invention. That’s why we have the “rule books,” so that we don’t go off on some crazy, man-made tangent and call that worship.

And while my rant is just warming up….let’s see what the Bible says about worship: Hebrews 8:5 and Hebrews 9:23-24 show us that God gave man His worship to be a shadow and type of the heavenly worship. In other words, earthly worship should look like heaven. Where in heaven do you see the kind of dog-and-pony show you see in Charismaniac worship? Where is the incense in your worship, seeing that in Revelation we see incense in heaven? And candles. And robes? And prayers of faithful being offered by the saints in heaven to the throne of God? Where are the icons that remind us of the “communion of the saints.”

uniformed priests that tell you what you are to believe

You mean like the “uniforms” that God told Moses to be made for His priests in the book of Leviticus?  Uniforms that say to all mankind that these men are special and perform a special function that no one else can perform? Uniforms that set them apart from any old Average Joe Pewsitter so that people know that these men are worth respect and honor for how they have given the totality of their lives to Christ?

Or do you mean the uniforms of poorly-tailored polyester suits that were almost mandatory for every Fundamentalist “preacha” to wear during the 1960’s, along with a crew-cut and a very narrow little black tie.

As for telling us “what to believe”….. O Lawdy!!!  You must be kidding! You don’t think you are free in Protestantism to just come in and say “I believe in Jesus” and find a home, do you? I mean, in every Fundamentalist assembly I joined, I was required to read a statement of beliefs and sign it. It was expected of me, when I joined the PCA, that I would give strict adherence to the Westminster Confession of Faith. Deviation from that book can result in being branded a “heretic” and shown the door, sometimes none too politely.

overly ornate services

I answered this already. Our Liturgy is supposed to look like heaven. Go read Hebrews 5:8 and Hebrews 9:23-24, then get a nice Guiness stout and a fine cigar and go meditate on what it means for the worship to be a shadow and type of the heavenly worship. Heaven is not as dull and devoid of beauty  as a Fundamentalist worship hall which used to be a former Baskin-Robins Ice Cream Emporium,  with its walls painted white and a cheesy-looking cross standing in the corner. I remember one Fundamentalist pastor of mine, who, when he wanted a little beauty in the form of a stained glass panel put in over the entryway of his church, was roundly scolded by his church council because “that would make us look too Catholic.”

foreign languages

Antiochian Orthodoxy comes in English. Redneck drones preaching in the backwoods of Kentucky?  I don’t know what language they are talking!!

tons of icons and figurines

Perhaps you have forgotten this verse in your Bible: 

Heb 12:1   Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Oh, wait, I forgot, you’re a Protestant you believe that those who have been made alive in Christ are not really alive, but are really dead. That “communion of the saints” in the one Body of Christ is just nice sounding words. We are the Body and they are …. dead.  They are not part of the Body at all because they are dead, not alive.

Icons make real the presence of those who have gone before us.  They give us a focal point for our prayers and their lives inspire us to press forward when things get tough.

Of course, Protestants don’t have icons, now do they? Oh??? I’ve seen Fundamentalists almost in tears when meeting Dr. Bob  Jones or Jerry Falwell. If you dare question the Westminster Confession of Faith in front of a Calvinist, you may have a fist-fight on your hands.  Ditto with Episcopalians and Cranmer’s Prayer Book.

worship “helps” for sale in the foyers  

You mean like the bookstores attached to so many churches in which they sell yards and yards of “Jesus Junk?” When I was going to Riverdale Baptist they had a HUGE bookstore filled with all kinds of trinkets. Don’t point fingers, you guys are not exempt from this.

prayer cards, smoke swinging, bells, hand-feeding of the Eucharist……. I imagine you get the idea.

Roman heterodox “hand-feed” the Eucharist. You won’t find that in the East. You also won’t find that we prevent our infant children from receiving the Eucharist, which Jesus said is the source of “eternal life” (and not “faith alone”). Of course, once Rome left the Church, it has been pretty much a downhill slide for them in praxis and dogmatics ever since, including all their crazy visionaries with their odd visions which paint God as a monster instead of a loving heavenly Father (who is probably quite sorrowful watching how His children are carrying on).

As for the incense — it is used in heaven. It should be used on earth. Earthly worship is supposed to look like heavenly worship. It is a picture of the heavenly. Protestants have jettisoned all that in favor of hour long sermons which appeal strictly to the intellect. The more clever you are with your preachin’, the more likely you will get “the call” to be someone’s pastor somewhere.

I’ve only actually been, in person, to RCC, and GO services, but I’ve seen the others online, and they really do look pretty much the same.

So in other words, there is the unity which Christ said He wanted His people to have in John 17, as opposed to the free-wheeling, anything goes, I-call-the-shots-here style of worship and doctrine in which you never know exactly what you are going to get any Sunday morning. Could be anything from a Jimmy Swaggart jazz concert or could be an Anglican faxu Mass with invalid Sacraments and lesbian female priestesses. And you really think this kind of chaos resembles one united Body of Christ???? You think this has any connection to the worship established in the Early Church by the Apostles and the men they trained?

Whenever I go to an Eastern Liturgy, whether it be Byzantine Catholic or some form of Orthodoxy, I know exactly what to expect. It is so familiar that I don’t even have to speak the language that it is in. From Sunday to Sunday, the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is the same every week. Evangelicalism on the other hand – weight lifters for Jesus, karate for Jesus, gun giveaways, being blown up in a car, then getting out and preaching “the Gospel,” or preaching at a pulpit shaped like a motorcycle and blessing bikes. What’s next ? Exploding puppies for Jaaaaaayzuz???

If you ever really come to understand what it is you are looking at, you will RUN to the nearest Orthodox parish and beg to be let in. Right now, your eyes are shut.

Yeah, dude, you really pushed my button this morning!

Yeah…..attitude. Some of us have it and some don’t. This guy found out that I do.